Join me, Anthony Salter (aka Viridian) as I talk about what it's like being a new employee at Stardock and detail what I'm doing to help Elemental be the best strategy game ever.
What we're shooting for and why.
Published on February 18, 2010 By AnthonySalter In Elemental Dev Journals

Hi!  I'm Viridian, also known as Anthony Salter, and I just finished a major revamp of the citybuilding system.  I'd like to talk today about our design goals for citybuilding and how the system currently works.

First, let's look at how our major inspirations, Civilization and Master of Magic, handled cities.  In both games, cities were fairly abstract.  They consisted of a single icon on the map and a screen full of sprites and numbers.



And you would end up with dozens of the things as the game progressed; to the point where you'd probably end up ignoring some because they were too small or unproductive to help you win the game.  (Didn't prevent them from falling into civil disorder and bringing your whole empire to a grinding halt...grr...)

 

As strategy games developed, a genre of incredibly detailed citybuilding games emerged, including the Caesar series, the Settlers series, and the Anno series.

 

 

In these games, everything is simulated practically down to the atomic level.  These are the kinds of games where you need to mine ore to make tools to cut down trees to gather lumber to take to the sawmill to make planks to build new buildings.

Now, there's no doubt this can be fun.  I've enjoyed both the Settlers and the Anno series of games myself.  The only problem is that citybuilding, while important, isn't the only thing you do in Elemental, and thus we can't allow it to dominate the game the way it does in Anno-style games.  (I can hear certain people weeping on the forums already but it's true.)  So what we've tried to do is create a happy medium.

I've spent all this time telling you how citybuilding won't work; it might be a good idea to tell you how it will.

What exactly did we want when we set out to create our citybuilding system?

Well, first, we didn't want city spam.  Thus, we created a system where building a smaller number of larger, older cities is rewarded.

As you probably know, Sovereigns can create cities, thus creating a town hub.  There are five levels a hub can go through - they start as outposts, then upgrade to hamlets, villages, towns, and cities.  At each upgrade point you'll get eight new tiles to build improvements on - and your city will be able to support more efficient improvements that it couldn't before.

Another feature of cities is that they are (mostly) auto-upgrading.  If you expand your city to a village and you have the Housing technology researched, then all your huts will upgrade to houses - instantly, and for free.  Your city needs to be at the proper level and you must have the technology researched in order for this to happen.  Again, I can hear the cries of some forum-goers who think that this will negatively impact the game, but we're facing facts here.  Ninety percent of the time when we get a new housing tech we simply demolish our old houses and build new ones right where the old ones were.  Because of the hard forty-tile limit you can't just throw more out there - non-optimal improvements will literally be a detriment to your city.

Indeed, crafting a good city is going to be a continual series of trade-offs rather than a forever-growing list of improvements.  And as the city grows and the game progresses, you will find yourself continually repurposing your cities rather than building new ones.

An early city in Elemental.

 

Our goal is to strike a balance, so that we aren't overwhelming the player with city management, but we still provide a robust enough experience that you don't just think of your city as numbers and sprites.  When someone attacks your city and your little people start running around screaming, we want you thinking, "Hey!  Stop picking on them!  How 'bout a little FIRE, Scarecrow?!"

 

EDIT:  I originally stated that Sovereigns needed to expend essence to create cities.  This is incorrect; they expend essence to bring the land back to life so the city can be built.  I have fixed the error in the article.


Comments (Page 2)
11 Pages1 2 3 4  Last
on Feb 18, 2010

Damn, you heard me cry before I even knew I was going to! Can I have your time machine?

And will there be enough variety in buildings, and/or maybe other city features, that all of our full-grown cities won't be just variations on a theme? One of the things that I think add the most life to fantasy worlds is the uniqueness of many of their larger cities, even within nations.

I've been worried about this ever since you guys reneged on your initial resource system, which would have allowed for a great deal of uniqueness to arise quite naturally, in favor of a system with much less potential in that regard.

I must say, though, I am happy with the auto-upgrade of buildings so long as the city quality and research requirements have been met. I think it'll be a big time/annoyance saver without giving up very much in return, especially because your cities that don't meet the quality requirement will remain unupgraded. That said, though, might it be possible to manually upgrade buildings even in smaller towns, for a cost? So long as the cost is prohibitive enough to dissuade people from upgrading just because they can, it would provide us with quite a lot of strategic leeway.

on Feb 18, 2010

This all sounds very good. Like the voice of reason actually. 

But now we know more about how citybuilding shouldn't be than how it will be ...

What happens when you attack a city? I LOVE crazy battles where you have to break through the city walls and even better: its magical defenses. Please DO include turrets, mundane and magical, sniping at the enemy.

How is a city impacted by the tile it is built on? defense bonuses? (I sure hope so). More/less food ... By the tiles around it?

What about the population race. One thing which was kind of cool in AoW was that when you took over a goblin city it did not just turn into a human city. You actually had to stay with an occupying army there so they wouldn't revolt, and then you had the option to start importing your own race until it reached an acceptable level. Will we get anything along these lines??

For me the uniqueness of a city is very important to remember it and really care about it. And this I think is linked to where it is situated on the map as far as this has an important impact on the game. Furtermore, it would be cool if you get some kind of bonuses if you manage to build specialised cities instead of building "the best" and same buildings (baracks ...) in all of them equally spread out. In this way you would have benefits from building a centre of learning for example, or a real fortress. I will never forget a city I built in CivIV between several mountains, guarding a mountain pass and very difficult to take. What made it rememberable was that it was really part of the mountains. Cities need to be influenced by the nature and environment (hostile border zone etc) around them in order to end up rememberable.

on Feb 18, 2010

More resources and more city building options are always a great thing.  For me, it makes a more immersive game.  Just provide the ability to auto-manage for those who don't like/prefer that sort of thing.

on Feb 18, 2010

Auto upgrade?  so no flowing cities where the balance of rich and poor is different? At least when cities were just one tile we had room to let our imagination do the work.... I don't mean to sound like a stick the mud, I really don't, because I want this game to be the greatest. I just don't see why if there's focus being given to Citybuilding, why isn't directed towards making it more engaging and immersive? From what I read above it sounds incredibly gamey, especially the way this was phrased:

...then all your huts will upgrade to houses - instantly, and for free.

So basically every serf in the village immediately and for no apparent reason just got wealthy and decided they needed a bigger house...

on Feb 18, 2010

That is a fire shard.  And yes, you do.

on Feb 18, 2010

AnthonySalter
GhostKingGeorge:  Right now you can research and then built better city walls, which will give units in your city defensive bonuses in combat (we're still working out the details).  I don't think we're planning on turrets.

 

vieuxchat:  No, the upgrade will be triggered by either the city levelling up or you researching the correct improvement.  So you don't have to worry; it'll upgrade either way.

So what about different kind of housing ? Between a house with more room  or a house with more influence gained, how the computer will choose ?

on Feb 18, 2010

RisingLegend
So basically every serf in the village immediately and for no apparent reason just got wealthy and decided they needed a bigger house...

A Sovereign did it!

on Feb 18, 2010

Admiral100

Quoting tamides, reply 6Spending essence to create a city, just sounds wierd, spending essence to purify water in a area, thus making it habitable for you rase, sounds, to me, better

I like the approach to this kind of city making, but i think that auto upgrading should be made as a toggle, and that the upgrade should take time.

I am really looking foreward to beta 2
 

To be honest, I had thought that was the way to think of the sovereign spending essence for cities.  Basically it was to improve the conditions of the land to make it favorable for habitation.  Kind of like purifying the "tainted" land, or something like that.  I could be wrong in looking at it that way.

Me too

 

on Feb 18, 2010

Wintersong
Out of topic but... Stardock badge? Not that I doubt you but I find myself curious by the lack of it.

Will the minimum space between cities increase too? And some extra info about why the Sovereign  is the only one who can create new cities even in terrain that is already imbued and of his type?

Haha.  I can vouch for Anthony that he is an official Stardock developer on the Elemental team.  I don't think he's used the forum very much yet and this is his first journal, so we still need to set him up with a badge. 

 

 

on Feb 18, 2010

And will there be enough variety in buildings, and/or maybe other city features, that all of our full-grown cities won't be just variations on a theme?

The current system has the 5 tiers of 'main' building types (Houses, Mundane Research, Arcane Research, Economy, Training), resource harvesting buildings, then countless other 1-time 'special' buildings (1 per Faction or 1 per World) to make each city as unique as possible.

on Feb 18, 2010

I can vouch for Anthony that he is an official Stardock developer on the Elemental team.

I trust that he is, but those badges are convenient when skimming a thread for official responses.

 

on Feb 18, 2010

I actually find the eight-tiles-per-upgrade rule a bit silly and very restrictive at the same time. Instead of a hard cap that doesn't really make much sense from a realistic point of view, why not just add in a logarythmically/exponentially-growing cost (in production, efiicicency, population, gold, whatever... I'm thinking population getting tied up in logistical jobs and thus becoming unavailable) for each tile expanded onto over the city level? Needs refinement, sure, but it would create a point where it is no longer economical to expand beyond a certain point, but if you did so (say your sov is too far away to found something and you really need a new watchtower, you built all Tax Offices or something else you don't wanna have to demolish but need more housing to reach the next level, or have a lot of resources really close together that you can only really get at with a single ubermining town) you can push the envelope.

on Feb 18, 2010

countless other 1-time 'special' buildings (1 per Faction or 1 per World) to make each city as unique as possible.

Yes!!

on Feb 18, 2010

So what about different kind of housing ? Between a house with more room or a house with more influence gained, how the computer will choose ?

Those would be two different types of housing.  Huts->houses hold more but don't provied prestige. Estates->Mansions  hold less citizens but raise the prestige of your city.

on Feb 18, 2010

Cauldyth

but those badges are convenient when skimming a thread for official responses.  
Yep.

11 Pages1 2 3 4  Last