Join me, Anthony Salter (aka Viridian) as I talk about what it's like being a new employee at Stardock and detail what I'm doing to help Elemental be the best strategy game ever.
What we're shooting for and why.
Published on February 18, 2010 By AnthonySalter In Elemental Dev Journals

Hi!  I'm Viridian, also known as Anthony Salter, and I just finished a major revamp of the citybuilding system.  I'd like to talk today about our design goals for citybuilding and how the system currently works.

First, let's look at how our major inspirations, Civilization and Master of Magic, handled cities.  In both games, cities were fairly abstract.  They consisted of a single icon on the map and a screen full of sprites and numbers.



And you would end up with dozens of the things as the game progressed; to the point where you'd probably end up ignoring some because they were too small or unproductive to help you win the game.  (Didn't prevent them from falling into civil disorder and bringing your whole empire to a grinding halt...grr...)

 

As strategy games developed, a genre of incredibly detailed citybuilding games emerged, including the Caesar series, the Settlers series, and the Anno series.

 

 

In these games, everything is simulated practically down to the atomic level.  These are the kinds of games where you need to mine ore to make tools to cut down trees to gather lumber to take to the sawmill to make planks to build new buildings.

Now, there's no doubt this can be fun.  I've enjoyed both the Settlers and the Anno series of games myself.  The only problem is that citybuilding, while important, isn't the only thing you do in Elemental, and thus we can't allow it to dominate the game the way it does in Anno-style games.  (I can hear certain people weeping on the forums already but it's true.)  So what we've tried to do is create a happy medium.

I've spent all this time telling you how citybuilding won't work; it might be a good idea to tell you how it will.

What exactly did we want when we set out to create our citybuilding system?

Well, first, we didn't want city spam.  Thus, we created a system where building a smaller number of larger, older cities is rewarded.

As you probably know, Sovereigns can create cities, thus creating a town hub.  There are five levels a hub can go through - they start as outposts, then upgrade to hamlets, villages, towns, and cities.  At each upgrade point you'll get eight new tiles to build improvements on - and your city will be able to support more efficient improvements that it couldn't before.

Another feature of cities is that they are (mostly) auto-upgrading.  If you expand your city to a village and you have the Housing technology researched, then all your huts will upgrade to houses - instantly, and for free.  Your city needs to be at the proper level and you must have the technology researched in order for this to happen.  Again, I can hear the cries of some forum-goers who think that this will negatively impact the game, but we're facing facts here.  Ninety percent of the time when we get a new housing tech we simply demolish our old houses and build new ones right where the old ones were.  Because of the hard forty-tile limit you can't just throw more out there - non-optimal improvements will literally be a detriment to your city.

Indeed, crafting a good city is going to be a continual series of trade-offs rather than a forever-growing list of improvements.  And as the city grows and the game progresses, you will find yourself continually repurposing your cities rather than building new ones.

An early city in Elemental.

 

Our goal is to strike a balance, so that we aren't overwhelming the player with city management, but we still provide a robust enough experience that you don't just think of your city as numbers and sprites.  When someone attacks your city and your little people start running around screaming, we want you thinking, "Hey!  Stop picking on them!  How 'bout a little FIRE, Scarecrow?!"

 

EDIT:  I originally stated that Sovereigns needed to expend essence to create cities.  This is incorrect; they expend essence to bring the land back to life so the city can be built.  I have fixed the error in the article.


Comments (Page 6)
11 PagesFirst 4 5 6 7 8  Last
on Feb 19, 2010

Demiansky
Is it just me, or does it seem like houses are a waste to build?  You know you'll have to build them for an exanding city, so it's really just extra clicks for the player to actually make them put the houses on a given tile. ...

I don't immediately love your alternative, but I'm definitely starting to think the housing stuff might be mostly annoying click overhead. And that's actually part because of this idea of automatic, universal upgrades and how silly it seems to have everyone in a large city having the same type of housing. Even with equal wealth distribution (complete nonsense for a setting like Elemental), you'd still have differences in taste--some folks preferring Roman-style apartment buildings, some liking roomy townhouses, and some wanting a decent garden even in the middle of town.

on Feb 19, 2010

Two Words: Human Trafficking!

Population explosion leads to population migration.  If there is a housing shortage then people migrate to a better climate.  Prestige could influence where to among other variables.  Let's say the sov used super aphrodesiac like bunnies spell on city A because the city had an excess of food without a dependable method of transporting it to other cities.  Unfortunately, now the city is at max capacity in size and housing and the population is still exploding, damned magic.  Civil unrest aside, people are leaving to the most attractive space (my other cities) like how a gass fills a void.  Uh oh!  Enemy sov has a close distance connected city with too much housing and very very high prestige, far greater than mine.  My people are defecting to him!  My excess population is now feeding the enemy!  "My great plans, my brilliant strategy, my, my, my." 

"Bah, it's all Stardock's fault for putting that spell in there, just tempting me to use it recklessly."

on Feb 19, 2010

 

Is it just me, or does it seem like houses are a waste to build?  You know you'll have to build them for an exanding city, so it's really just extra clicks for the player to actually make them put the houses on a given tile. ...

 

I don't immediately love your alternative, but I'm definitely starting to think the housing stuff might be mostly annoying click overhead. And that's actually part because of this idea of automatic, universal upgrades and how silly it seems to have everyone in a large city having the same type of housing. Even with equal wealth distribution (complete nonsense for a setting like Elemental), you'd still have differences in taste--some folks preferring Roman-style apartment buildings, some liking roomy townhouses, and some wanting a decent garden even in the middle of town.

I agree. It's what I said before about there being mansions in every city  Equal wealth distribution is complete nonsense, especially for a game like Elemental. I just never thought about that fact of difference in taste which is completely true as well.

I don't think Demiansky's idea would be too bad, it definitely would seem more fluid than "oh wow, look! You get 8 more tiles to place buildings on!" Those 8 tiles would rather just open up as housing slowly condensed towards the city center (going from taking up 4 to 2 tiles for instance). I could see eventual slums, tenements, etc. (which would maybe take up 1 tile) forming because of too much expansion too fast, or not enough wealth in the city (from trade! going back to earlier statments...) This would naturally cause that "too many people" problem in games like Civ, naturally hindering more city growth and production, etc. but you would actually see it happening. Overall, i think other factors (wealth, happiness, necessity) should determine city growth, not the fact that every person in town thinks they need a new house because you built an armory for them....

As stated in previous threads, a mansion might take up 4 tiles, and never condense. Thus it gets you the benefit of a mansion (more wealth and prestige) but you hinder the productivity of a city in the long run. Also, it would never generate as much population as a slum would. This would be a strategic choice. Do you go for the population numbers and thus more production and resource acquisition from surrounding lands, or would you rather have a smaller population, but more wealth and prestige?

 

on Feb 19, 2010

Population explosion leads to population migration.
  I beleive that's part of the plan for the next phase of citybuilding.

risinglegend and the rest: Seriously, I think you should just wait until 1G to see this all in practice. I assure the following things...

-you will NOT have mansions in every city just by reaching top level
-huts don't just become houses without some sinificant effort on the player's part
-there will be tons of vaiety in the types of improvemets you buld throughout your kingdom

And if we fail on any of the accounts, we'll be the first to demand a fix in the next update

on Feb 19, 2010

When you say 8 tiles do you mean 8 full tiles per city level or 8 quarter tiles?

on Feb 19, 2010

8 tiles is 8 'quarter tiles'.  Resources use 4 tiles, and most of the improvements with an upgrade path take just 1 tile.

on Feb 19, 2010

Huh... Those cities aren't really that big then... With the absolute largest taking up only 9 tiles on the map and having at most 40 buildings including housing. It seems like we should get the opportunity for some end game metroplii larger than that...

on Feb 19, 2010

I think it'd be awesome if my empire consisted of just one or maybe two huge cities and then dozens of smaller settlements...

on Feb 19, 2010

Those cities aren't really that big then
You'd be suprised...the cloth map makes everything feel smaller. That screenshot in the OP is only using 14 tiles, so the largest citiy would be almost 200% larger.

If we're finding end game Cities to be too lacking, there's no reason we can't play with those numbers . But I'd much rather decide that and tweak several difinitive, tangable values than have to adjust data and algorithims to get the result we're looking for (hense all the debate up to this point). 

on Feb 19, 2010

BoogieBac

And will there be enough variety in buildings, and/or maybe other city features, that all of our full-grown cities won't be just variations on a theme?
The current system has the 5 tiers of 'main' building types (Houses, Mundane Research, Arcane Research, Economy, Training), resource harvesting buildings, then countless other 1-time 'special' buildings (1 per Faction or 1 per World) to make each city as unique as possible.

I really liked the "1 per planet", "1 per civilization", and "1 per galaxy" improvements in GalCiv II.  They added flavor and a nice strategic element to things.

on Feb 19, 2010

BoogieBac

Those cities aren't really that big then You'd be suprised...the cloth map makes everything feel smaller. That screenshot in the OP is only using 14 tiles, so the largest citiy would be almost 200% larger.
If we're finding end game Cities to be too lacking, there's no reason we can't play with those numbers . But I'd much rather decide that and tweak several difinitive, tangable values than have to adjust data and algorithims to get the result we're looking for (hense all the debate up to this point). 

Just make it configurable/moddable somewhere and I'll be happy.  :: shrugs ::

on Feb 19, 2010

I really liked the "1 per planet", "1 per civilization", and "1 per galaxy" improvements in GalCiv II. They added flavor and a nice strategic element to things.
Us too...there's something inherently exciting about having something special that can only be used once and deciding where it goes. Those improvements (and the planets they were built on) provided soemthing memorable, and we hope that utilizing them more in Elemental will result in cities that aren't just large, but unique and interesting in their own right.

on Feb 19, 2010

Ynglaur
... I really liked the "1 per planet", "1 per civilization", and "1 per galaxy" improvements in GalCiv II.  They added flavor and a nice strategic element to things.

I did too, but I like the larger maps and have no use for things like the Hyperion Shipyards. If Elemental includes faction- or world-unique improvements that improve locally-produced combat units, anything approaching city spam will be that much more annoying.

You'd be suprised...the cloth map makes everything feel smaller. That screenshot in the OP is only using 14 tiles, so the largest citiy would be almost 200% larger.

Semi-digression: does anyone else think that the Elemental screen shot in the OP shows an improvement connected to a dragon fountain? I smell some unreleased/in-progress lore, and I like it...

on Feb 19, 2010

BoogieBac

Population explosion leads to population migration.   I beleive that's part of the plan for the next phase of citybuilding.
risinglegend and the rest: Seriously, I think you should just wait until 1G to see this all in practice. I assure the following things...

-you will NOT have mansions in every city just by reaching top level
-huts don't just become houses without some sinificant effort on the player's part
-there will be tons of vaiety in the types of improvemets you buld throughout your kingdom

And if we fail on any of the accounts, we'll be the first to demand a fix in the next update

We'll see in 1G .. but .. don't you like my idea of a possibly ever-growing city ? I would love to play a game where I just built only one big big big city.

on Feb 19, 2010

I wonder how customizable this will be. I want my theocracy to function as church and school. God tells me how the world works and nothing more be known!

11 PagesFirst 4 5 6 7 8  Last